RTM Disco+ Vs. DAG Midway

[jmac]

I am new to the forum, eager to purchase a yak and have been researching what would be best for my needs for the past month of so.

I've pretty much decided I would like a yak that tracks well and can do distances with relative ease but also allows me the ability to do some basic fishing, mainly in Hawkesbury River system, Sydney, Middle Harbour, or estuaries and lakes when on holidays. Would love to get offshore some day, but that will come with time and experience. Weight 72kg, 182cm tall.

After reading through post 'Which kayak under $1000' started by bob in March 25 2007, (thanks Bob, Sir Bob and others) was convinced that Disco+ by RTM was the yak for me. http://www.kfdu.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1531. Also read Capn Jimbo's reviews on that post and was sold.

However, I recenlty found DAG Midway for sale at a much lower cost ($985 - 15% off - vs $1299 ) which the vendor tells me is very comparable (even better stability) to the Disco+. It looks good, but not as sexy looking. Have been looking on web for comparison and reviews. There is a lot of info on the Disco+, have found very little on the Midway. Two questions:

Question 1. Is anyone aware of a review or does anyone have an informed comparison of these two yaks? Has anyone paddled on both of them? What do you think?

Question 2. Capn Jimbo, from Ft Lauderdale KFC, did make some positive comments on the Midway in comparison with the Disco+, although he had not paddled it, and he is a huge fan of the Disco. Problem is I don't understand many of his comments. Can someone interpret them for me? See below:

Midway: 14'5" x 25.6" x 50 lb., 13.4" depth, little rocker, fuller (toward the end),appears to have sponsonlike chines, modified vee hull.

Disco: 14' x 25.6" x 50 lb., 13" depth, plenty of rocker, finer entry, true modified vee hull. No chines, smooth transition.

And then on another post:
Other shots I've seen seem to indicate a shallow vee hull, long waterline. This kayak has near ideal dimensions and weight, looks very fast, and if I'm right bout the hull, a great turning boat. Certainly a contender with Pro-like dimensions.

The Midway does not appear to have a lot of rocker like the Scupper Pro, so most of its 14.4 feet will be in the water. The beam at 25.5 inches will be plenty stable enough, with a waterline beam of at least a couple inches less. Not only does this mean less wetted surface for more speed, but I'd believe it'll be easy to lean turn more effectively than the Pro.

Not looking for an extensive reply, but what is rocker, sponsonlike chines, etc etc. What is he exactly saying. HOw might the two yaks compare based on these comments?

Would really appreciate any assistance. Hoping to get a yak in the next couple of days as I will have next week off work and looking forward to getting out on the water.

[Biggles]

G'day jmac, great to see the old posts are still of great value to our members. I don't know too much about either machine that you have spoken about, but I'm sure a few of the guys will reply once they see your post.

Good luck.

Regards

Al

[Richo]

Can someone interpret them for me? See below:

Midway: 14'5" x 25.6" x 50 lb., 13.4" depth, little rocker, fuller (toward the end),appears to have sponsonlike chines, modified vee hull.

Disco: 14' x 25.6" x 50 lb., 13" depth, plenty of rocker, finer entry, true modified vee hull. No chines, smooth transition.

And then on another post:
Other shots I've seen seem to indicate a shallow vee hull, long waterline. This kayak has near ideal dimensions and weight, looks very fast, and if I'm right bout the hull, a great turning boat. Certainly a contender with Pro-like dimensions.

The Midway does not appear to have a lot of rocker like the Scupper Pro, so most of its 14.4 feet will be in the water. The beam at 25.5 inches will be plenty stable enough, with a waterline beam of at least a couple inches less. Not only does this mean less wetted surface for more speed, but I'd believe it'll be easy to lean turn more effectively than the Pro.


Not looking for an extensive reply, but what is rocker, sponsonlike chines, etc etc. What is he exactly saying. HOw might the two yaks compare based on these comments?

Would really appreciate any assistance. Hoping to get a yak in the next couple of days as I will have next week off work and looking forward to getting out on the water.

Hi Jmac,
This is my limited interpretation.
Rocker is the curve in the shape of the hull from front to back . the more rocker or curve the less stable ( front to back) & harder to keep on track, but far easier to turn quickly.The less rocker the easier to track in straight line & slower to turn.

Chine is like a set of rails that run from the front to the back on the sides underneath, creating an edge which deflects water spray if in choppy conditions ( usually more stable than a no-chine or displacement hull)& will roll over the tops of waves.
Where a No chine hull will punch thru them, less stable too.

Dont know what sponson is, someone with more boat knowledge may help

Here`s a rough cross section drawing. May help?

Hulls.jpg

[rat fish]

Sponsons are the little extra bits they add to the side of boats & helicopters often for mounting weapons. In this context talking about sponson like chines he'd be talking about the additional stability style sponson though (not nearly as much fun as the first kind), kind of like a cheap version of an outrigger they're normally just a set of floats on either side of a canoe. guess it's another way of saying the chines give it great stability - most likely primary.

[jonesy]

Sponsons are the little extra bits they add to the side of boats & helicopters often for mounting weapons. In this context talking about sponson like chines he'd be talking about the additional stability style sponson though (not nearly as much fun as the first kind), kind of like a cheap version of an outrigger they're normally just a set of floats on either side of a canoe. guess it's another way of saying the chines give it great stability - most likely primary.

I like the idea of weapons bloody ski boats

[jmac]

Thanks for the earlier responses. I had a request the other day via email asking whether I purchased the Midway adn what I thought. Having made the effort to reply by email I thought it might be helpful to post up my thoughts. Basic contents of my email are below....

Yep, I did end up purchasing the Midway, angler version. In the end the difference in dollars was the clincher. At the time I wasn't able to test paddle either boat so based it on price and what I had read on the net.

How has it been? On the whole I have been quite happy. I wanted a long light kayak for simple fishing that I could paddle at a good pace for distances of up to 10km or more. Many other fishing kayaks looked to be larger, heavier and slower than what I was looking for. I purchased a Viking Espri at the same time to go out with my son or others and to possibly take into the surf. Two different boats, but both weighing less than 25 kg. Espri is about 3.6m long I think, and much broader, about 85cm.

The Midway is a fast boat, makes the Espri (which lots of people love - check out the reviews) feel like a bathtub by comparison. In calm water it tracks through the water much better and is a pleasure to paddle. I have been out with friends, struggling to keep up when I paddle the Espri, they struggle when I paddle the Midway. Also I can paddle with hands closer to the water, and clear of the sides which I have found preferable to when I have paddled in light and long sit in kayaks. I have had no real hassles turning or manourvering the Midway.

It is also very easy to handle off the water - much easier than the Espri. This was a priority for me as I didn't want to bother with trolley wheels and wanted to be able to carry it by myself (I'm no Hercules) and lift it easily on to the roof racks. This I can do. DAG have put in a lot of good little features, well placed handles, storage compartments, elastic net at back all of which I have found useful.

As for stability, it can feel a bit tippy when you first get in. Far more tippy than the Espri or most other fishing kayaks I would imagine. However, once you're out on the water you quickly get used to this and I have always felt safe.

As for fishing, there is a Scotty rod holder (on the anglers version) mounted right in the middle of the yak, between your legs, and two rear facing flush built in rod holders behind the paddling seat. These are well located and have all been useful. However, you don't have a lot of other easily accessible space. There is a small flat section with elastic tie down between your crotch and the rod holder. I put a small lunch box on this which I use to hold basic tackle, lures, knife etc. This works well for me, but is best suited to a simpler fishing style. Reaching round to the rear storage section (I have a plastic basket there buckled under the security buckle), I can lift large things out of the basket (eg tackle box, jumper etc), but I can't turn around and sift through it. Also you can't slide forward once your out on the water to the front of the boat to store anything in the front hatch, as the scotty rod holder is right in the way. There is a bit of space around your legs which you can reach forward and access. But once you're in your seat, you're in your seat. But I think this would be the case with either the Midway or Disco. That's what you get with a long light sit on top kayak. I am relatively happy with it as a fishing platform for my needs. It's not a great 'fishing yak' but then it's not big, heavy, slow and super stable with heaps of storage space for nicks and nacks. None of those things were great priorities for me and I am happy that I got what I wanted. The Espri is a much more stable fishing platform - but more often than not I take the Midway when I go by myself and I do spend most of my time trying to catch fish (still trying).

Downsides - Biggest hassle has been in windy conditions and choppy water, perhaps also in big tidal runs. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong but this is where the Midway seems to lose its tracking. I have at times done double the strokes on one side just to keep heading where I want to go. When paddling the Espri in the same conditions I don't have this problem. Why this is happening I'm not sure, perhaps the chop tends to hit one end of the boat first and pushes it around in one direction, or perhaps the tides are having more of an effect on the longer boat, but for the few times I have had it in choppy,windy conditions it has been frustrating. The Espri has a deeper sort of keel at the back and because I can keep paddling more effectively on both sides is actually easier to manage in such conditions. I might be doing something wrong. It might also have to do with why kayaks as long as the Midway almost always have rudder systems to help keep them straight. I would love a rudder when it gets choppy and rough. This was a real hassle for me early on, but I haven't noticed it as much lately, perhaps I haven't been paddling as much in windy choppy conditions.

One other downside, your bum is almost always sitting in a puddle of water. Not a big problem in summer. Not too much hassle but it would be nice to have a warm dry bum when the weather cools. HOwever, if it was really a big issue, perhaps I shouldnt be fishing from a kayak when the weather gets cold. I believe from reading earlier reviews that the Disco has the same problem. They both have a seating position slightly below the water line to lower the centre of gravity and improve stability on a long skinny boat.

I have never paddled a Disco+. Would love to give one a go as I've wondered ever since I got the Midway if I'd made the right decision. So I don't know if I can help you much with that comparison. PErhaps the Disco would bounce over waves and give better control in choppy conditions, perhaps at the expense of fluid tracking in flat conditions, perhaps not??

I have, however, been happy with my choice of a light, long fast sit on top kayak fitted out for fishing. I'm really enjoying it and am out on the water for 4-5 hours almost every week (this week being the exception).

It's good fun. I hope this helps and all the best as you find a yak suitable for yourself. I vascillated over this decision for more than a week and am still not sure if I made the right one. But I am happy with my choice.

[Biggles]

I vascillated over this decision for more than a week and am still not sure if I made the right one. But I am happy with my choice.

That was simply an excellent review jmac, and I am really pleased that you are happy with your choice, congratulations.

Regards

Al